Pennsylvania State Rep. Republican Ryan Mackenzie and U, S. Congresswoman Democrat Susan Wild appeared on Business Matters, a production of the greater Lehigh Valley Chamber of Commerce hosted by chamber CEO and President Anthony Ianelli Sept. 23. The debate was prerecorded at WFMZ-TV studios in Salisbury Township Sept. 6.

Their debate was punctuated with claims that the other candidate was “lying,” “gaslighting,” “misleading voters,” using “deception,” and with ad hominem fallacies and using “just words.”

The two candidates for the 7th Congressional District U.S. House of Representatives’ seat met on a stage facing each other from individual lecterns about 12 feet apart. Host Anthony Ianelli moderated the exchange and stood between the candidates alternating questions between the two.

A studio audience provided applause. Factions in the audience supported the candidate of their preference.

Wild, on the right side of the stage, was dressed in a red blazer and slacks. Mackenzie on the left was in a dark two-piece business suit.

Comments in brackets [] are for context or fact checking by the Press.

Guns and the

Second Amendment

Wild: I believe that the vast majority of gun owners are responsible especially in this district. We have a situation where parents are terrified of sending their kids to school, concerts, supermarkets and everywhere else. I have voted for universal background checks, which my opponent has opposed in the state house. The United States is number one in the world in terms of gun deaths. That is unacceptable in a country like ours.

Mackenzie: We need to secure funding for schools and places of worship so they can secure their facilities, something I have voted for and supported in state legislature. We need to provide additional funding for mental health, something I have voted for and supported in state legislature. What you’ve done Susan, is just a lot of talk, but I have voted to have all mental health records to go into a database here in Pennsylvania to make sure those individuals don’t get guns. We also passed regulations to keep guns away from domestic abusers. Susan is all talk and no action.

Wild: My opponent has voted against ghost guns, mandatory reporting of lost and stolen guns. His position is not moderate. He has been bought and sold by the NRA.

[OpenSecrets.org website reports that Mackenzie has received $5,950 from the NRA.]

The American people are tired of being unsafe in public places.

Mackenzie: I’ve mentioned two solutions we’ve actually done in a bipartisan manner. There is more we can do. I’m proud to have the support of gun owners across our district, I’m also proud to have the support of the Fraternal Order of Police and who have spoken out against Susan Wild and her radical policies.

[Mackenzie may have been referring to an ad produced by supporters of Wild in which the speaker appeared to represent himself as an active-duty police officer, when apparently, he was not. The National Fraternal Order of Police announced that it endorses Trump on the issue of elimination of Federal Taxes on overtime pay, however the announcement made no mention of Wild. Also, the Police Leaders of Community Safety specifically endorsed Harris.]

Wild: I don’t see any reason for weapons of war to be out on the street in the hands of ordinary citizens. I have no problem with the military and law enforcement having those style of weapons.

Someone with a handgun can [shoot] one or two people; someone with an assault rifle can mow down an entire crowd and it happens way too often.

Mackenzie: We need to protect the rights of law-abiding citizens and keep [weapons] out of the hands of dangerous individuals. I’ve done that.

Foreign Policy- Thoughts on Israel. What is enough, what is too much?

Wild: The first thing is, we need those hostages released; every single one that is still alive and the bodies of the ones that are not. And that needs be the priority. Sadly, what we’ve seen recently is the murders of six of those hostages, including an American citizen, just before the moment of rescue. It’s the most heartbreaking thing I can think of. I’m always a staunch believer that Israel must always have a right to defend itself. People need to understand the vulnerable position that Israel has in the world and there is a need for it to defend itself. The United States needs to support [Israel]; it’s doing so.

Mackenzie: Hostage release is important. The Biden Administration and Susan Wild, on the Foreign Affairs committee, has totally failed us on that front. We have not seen any movement on this in 11 months. It’s because of wavering. We need moral clarity; we need to support Israel on the right to defend themselves. We need to get a peaceful resolution where those hostages come home. Susan Wild has flip-flopped on this issue. She was caught red-handed sending letters to her constituents saying she was pro-Israeli and pro-Hamas.

[Mackenzie was apparently referring to two letters, one to a mother, and another to her daughter in which Wild made what opponents describe as contradictory statements. Upon reading the published accounts of the letters, however, it seems clear that one supported Israel’s right to defend itself and the other decried the suffering and casualties of the citizens of Gaza.]

Wild: I have been very clear in my policy and my vote. I support Israel. I will always support Israel. Israel has an absolute right to defend itself. To hear my opponent, you’d think that President Biden single-handedly has the ability to bring an end to this war. May I remind my opponent the Prime Minister of Israel is a very big player in this. I think the administration and Secretary Blinken have done a lot in terms of trying to bring an end to this war through diplomacy. But they don’t get to call the shots. I believe that this war has to end, and what ends war is diplomacy.

Ukraine

Question to Mackenzie: Do you believe that if Trump had been in office, the war would never have happened? Do you believe that that’s valid?

Mackenzie: I think it’s very clear that that’s valid and we have a track record and history to prove it. The only time that Russia has attacked and invaded Ukraine is under Democratic [sic] administration. He referenced the annexation of Crimea and the Donetsk region under the Obama administration.

[On 24 February 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine in a major escalation of the Russo-Ukrainian War, which started in 2014. when it sent an armored column from Belarus’ border toward Kiev in Ukraine. Before that, Russia’s unmarked army, known as the “little green men,” invaded eastern Ukraine in 2014 (during the Obama administration) and occupied it all during the Trump administration and into the Biden administration.]

Mackenzie: The world is in chaos and the current administration has done nothing to bring peace in the world.

Wild: We know that President Trump was trying to influence [Ukraine President Volodymyr] Zelenskyy, but not in a good way. It’s possible that if President Trump had been president [at the time] we wouldn’t have had a war, but I think it’s more likely that he would have encouraged Putin to intrude and to assist in making sure that Russia was able to take over Ukraine. It’s not just about Ukraine. It’s about our allies; it’s about Eastern Europe. The next country in is Poland, if you think that Putin’s going to stop at Ukraine. I am proud of the fact that the United States has supported Ukraine in this unjustified war. I think everybody needs to understand it’s about democracy. The Ukrainian people have fought so hard to keep their democracy and I think it is good that we have supported them.

Mackenzie: You have made an absolutely baseless claim. You say that under President Donald Trump, they would have taken all of Ukraine. Absolutely ridiculous. Not based in fact or any kind of information. It’s reckless. It’s dangerous, that kind of rhetoric, and I think we should make sure we don’t do things like that. We do need to make sure that we stand by our allies. We need to make sure that our European allies are living up to their NATO obligations [of] two percent of their GDP, something that Donald Trump pushed them for. That’s what will protect Europe in the long run. We need to make sure we have a strong military to deter this kind of conflict from even beginning.

Do you feel like we should continue to support Ukraine?

Mackenzie: What we have seen is over a hundred billion dollars of taxpayer dollars sent to Ukraine. Totally horrific.

[According to the U.S. State Department,” we have provided more than $61.3 billion in military assistance since Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine Feb. 24, 2022, and approximately $64.1 billion in military assistance since Russia’s initial invasion of Ukraine in 2014.]

Two and half years of failed foreign policy from this administration and Susan Wild. Two and half years of tragedy and death to the Ukrainian people. That is not helping. This would not have occurred if Donald Trump was [sic] in office. We have a four-year track record to show that Putin would not have invaded Ukraine. To say anything else is disingenuous and not true. Peace through strength is a real foreign policy.

Wild: Talk about platitudes. Peace through strength. There are a large number of Ukrainians living right here in Pennsylvania who I have communicated with. They have family members there, and they are extremely concerned about the prospect of a possible Trump presidency which would completely cut off aid to Ukraine. It is not just about Ukraine. It’s about the concept of democracy for Europe. We could literally see the beginning of World War Three if Russia is permitted to take over Ukraine and keep moving into Europe. We have to make sure, and our allies have to make sure, because they have a vested interest in this, that Ukraine wins this war.

Mackenzie: What we just heard from the congresswoman is an embarrassing slip-up of denying peace through strength. We should be getting back to peace around the world like we saw during the last administration. I have been talking to the Ukrainian people here as well, and they want peace in their home country so that they can return to their families. After two and a half years of a failed policy, you and the Biden Administration have not delivered that.

[The Ukrainian population in Pennsylvania is about 100,000 and together with the Polish Americans make up about five percent of the population of the state.]

Iran – too tough?

Too easy?

Wild: I think the government of Iran is a bad actor. It is a real threat to Israel. I think we have seen evidence that the Iran government does not have the interests of its own citizens at heart, let along the rest of the world. I think we have to be very tough on Iran.”

Mackenzie agreed with Wild and added that Iran is sponsor of terrorism. He went on to criticize the Biden Adminstration’s action regarding Iran.

Mackenzie: The Biden Administration released six billion dollars of funds to Iran which they have used for terror throughout that region. I have screenshots showing that Wild supports Biden’s “failed position” on Iran.

Wild: Not so, what my opponent just said. We have to be tough on Iran. We have to assume that nothing good will come out of the Iranian government, and we have to assume they are after Israel. I think the Iranian government is behind a lot of things that happen in this country including some of the protests that we have seen on college campuses. And I think they may very well threaten our elections. I think Iran would like nothing more than see Donald Trump elected as president. This should be a bipartisan position. I am on the House Foreign Affairs Committee and being tough on Iran is a bipartisan position within the committee.

Russia, Iran, North Korea ... thoughts when you see that coalition growing?

Wild: It’s a huge concern. It threatens international peace and the rest of the world. You didn’t mention China, but China is part of that. These are all an axis that do not play by the rules and that threaten our national security and that of the rest of the world.

Mackenzie: Absolutely a threat. The congresswoman on the Foreign Affairs Committee has failed to address it.

On immigration. Thoughts?

Mackenzie: We have chaos at our southern border. We are approaching 10 million immigrants come across just in the past three years. Joe Biden unwound everything that Donald Trump had done to secure the border. Susan Wild stood by and supported those things. We have seen drugs come into our community, violence, human trafficking, sex trafficking. All of these ills that are putting strain on our local communities, our local law enforcement, our schools, our hospitals. And she, at the start of her career, called the border wall ‘silly.’ She said that sanctuary cities are safer. An absurd statement. She voted against border wall funding. She has failed, and it’s time for new leadership.

Wild: Once again my opponent misstated my record. I have actually voted for border security bills including when President Trump was president. [This bill] increased border patrol agents, increased technology that would actually detect the flow of drugs and bad guys into this country. It supported the Coast Guard. And by the way, the only common-sense, bipartisan bill that was ever put forth by the Senate this year, the GOP House of Representatives refused to even put up for a vote.

Mackenzie responded by saying Wild and the Biden administration opposed Trump’s border wall and, metaphorically speaking, created the fire at the border, and now says she is “going to put the fire out. Not believable.”

Wild: Let me remind my opponent that President Trump said we are going to build a border wall and that Mexico was going to pay for it. That didn’t happen in four years. We got portions of the border wall built in places where it was appropriate. That is a simplistic view of how you are going to solve this problem, and it has been going on for decades, through many, many presidents. We have never had a comprehensive approach to immigration reform. Why? Because it is completely politicized.

Wild gave credit to the Senate for passing a bipartisan immigration bill and said even though there were parts she didn’t like, she would have voted for it.

Mackenzie countered Wild’s immigration policy comments. “It’s a lot of talk with no actual solutions.” He said he brought together a bipartisan group of union and nonunion stake holders and that [the Pa. legislature] passed “E-Verify” for the construction industry.

Mackenzie: We need to find these bipartisan areas. Trying to seek out a whole comprehensive package has been elusive because it is so difficult, so we need to focus on the things that we agree on. I believe in border security. We need to put that up for a vote. She voted against it ten times and called the border wall silly.

Are you for completion of the border wall?

Mackenzie: Absolutely.

Wild: A wall is appropriate in certain portions of the border, but we also have to invest in technology. A wall alone does not solve the problems at the border.